As Usual, Anti-God’s Law Person Declines To Debate, Present Her Plan For Running The World
By John Lofton, Editor
Rena Levin is National Grassroots Organizer for the wretched Barry Lynn’s “Americans United for Separation of Church & State.” I saw her quoted somewhere (can’t remember where) criticizing and mischaracterizing what “theocracy” means. I sent her an email asking: “Why are you opposed to ‘theocracy’ which is simply Godly rule?” I said my question was not rhetorical; I would appreciate a reply. I sent her a copy of Dr. RJ Rushdoony’s article about theocracy which is on our Web site. Here is her response with my comments:
Levin: While interesting, the content of this article quickly demonstrates why theocracy is problematic no matter which definition you use.
Comment: Well — no. The real problem is ignoring God and His Law which is there whether you believe it or not. One does not, for example, have to believe in Hell to go there.
Levin: Specifically, Rushdoony is calling for governance based on the Christian Bible.
Comment: Indeed. Western law is based on the Bible. See, for example, Harold Berman’s two volumes “Law And Revolution.”
Levin: In addition to the fact that the US is a very religiously diverse nation….
Comment: Not at all. Consistently, national polls have shown our people say, overwhelmingly, we are more than 90 percent Christian. So, where’s this “diversity” you speak of? (And I know, of course, that telling a pollster you are Christian does not make you one.) Ultimately, “diversity” doesn’t matter. God’s Law applies to all human beings.
Levin: the notion of a Christian government run by “godly men” undermines Rushdoony’s claim that a theocracy would somehow be more libertarian than a state.
Comment: Really? How so? How are you defining “liberty” here? What do you believe should limit (be higher than) the State? These are not rhetorical questions. Please answer them. Scripture says “liberty” is where the Spirit of the Lord (Jesus Christ) governs. Civil government was ordained by God (Romans 13) and its purpose is to administer God’s Law. State, church, all institutions are accountable to God — Jesus Christ, King of kings, Lord of lords, the One to Whom ALL power is given on earth, in Heaven. True freedom and liberty are within the restraints of God’s Law. We have Godless government now. How do you like it?
Levin: It seems that Rushdoony simply wants to replace a secular form of government with a religious one.
Comment: All forms of civil government/the State are, in their origins, “religious.” Thus, there is no such thing as a “secular” government. And God is not a “religion.”
Levin: Reconstructionism/dominionism calls for a very radical form of law that would harshly punish violations of fundamentalist interpretations of Biblical mandates. For example, trespasses like blasphemy and homosexuality would be punishable by death.
Comment: Who are you to judge God and the punishments He has decreed for certain acts? Seriously, by what standard are you judging God?
I look forward to reading your responses. Thank you.
The following is her response, my comments:
Levin: Dear John…
Comment: Ah, yes, another “Dear John”, I’m leaving you missive — something that almost always happens when I ask folks such as yourself to defend your view and reply, please, to my questions.
Levin: Thank you for a prompt response. Unfortunately, I have neither the time nor inclination to engage in a theological debate.
Comment: Of course not. You have time only to attack, mischaracterize and fear what “theocracy” is but no time to support your charges and give me your plan for running the world.
Levin: To respond to your non-theological question…
Comment: There are no “non-theological questions.” God/the Lord Jesus Christ has something to do with everything even though He has not revealed all these details.
Levin: the US is religiously diverse. (For more information please visit: http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/aris_index.htm for the “American Religious Identification Survey.”) Whatever the numbers, and polls do vary, you are correct in saying that many Americans identify themselves as Christian. However, Christian is a broad term that has many different manifestations in reality.
Comment: I anticipated this observation by saying earlier that simply telling a pollster you are a “Christian” does not make you a Christian. Also, God defines who is a Christian and His definition is not all that broad though the road to destruction is broad. Matthew 7:13: “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat”(KJV)
Levin: Baptists and Lutherans are both Christian, but have opposite views on things like when people should be baptized and whether alcohol is permissible.
Comment: I’m arguing that it is God’s Law that should govern us, not the opinions of Baptists/Lutherans. Some Baptists/Lutherans no doubt are Christians; some are not. Just calling yourself Baptist/Lutheran does not make you a Christian.
Levin: It’s hard to imagine that these two Christian groups could agree on what US law should be if religious belief was the basis of that law.
Comment: They don’t have to agree. They don’t have to agree for God’s Law to be God’s Law. As I have said, one does not have to believe in Hell to go to Hell. St. Paul assures us that God’s Word is true even if every man is a liar.
But are you seriously asserting, with a straight face, that to have God’s Law as our law would cause more “disagreement” than we have now under our Godless legal system?!! Is it really your view that if God’s Law was our law this would disrupt the present harmony and peace among our courts, judges, lawyers, legislators? No, governing according to God’s Law would be much easier/less complex than trying to figure out what “justice” is from the hundreds of thousands of man-invented “laws” passed in our country annually and those millions of man-made “laws” already on the books.
(Incidentally — assuming you’re for it — under your system, what is “justice”?)
I once stood in an attorney’s large office (Massachusetts). His “law” books were floor to ceiling on all walls; the latest “laws” were in a loose-leaf notebook, more copies of new “laws” were pouring out of his fax. No, he said, we couldn’t govern ourselves by the Bible — too many disagreements as to what is said in the Bible. I replied, holding up my thin Scripture containing all 66 books of God’s Word:
“Oh, and you lawyers never disagree about what the law is, right?! You gotta be kidding me! Here’s God’s Law-Book; notice how thin it is. Now, look at all your “law”-books, most of which you have not read, will never read, wouldn’t understand if you did read, and shouldn’t read because they are at least hourly being negated by the latest court rulings and new “laws” being passed!
No reply.
No, God’s Way is the easier way, as He says (Matthew 11:28-30): “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” God also commands judges to kiss His Son lest He be angry (Psalm 2:10-12).
Levin: One of the reasons our founding fathers separated religion and government was to try and avoid the bloody religious wars that had plagued Europe for centuries because of the mixing of the two.
Comment: God is not a “religion.” I do not care about “religion.” In fact, I hate “religion.” I am not a “religionist” because “religion” saves no one. And Jefferson says in the Declaration of Independence that the precise purpose of (civil) government is to protect unalienable God-given rights. And when (civil) government becomes destructive of those God-given rights, that government should be altered/abolished! Oh, and you may have noticed that having Godless/Christless government as we do now has not stopped us from being involved in wars.
Levin: The system we have now means that Lutherans can baptize babies, Baptists can baptize adults, Lutherans can drink alcohol etc. In other words, our system allows people to live in accordance with their beliefs.
Comment: Right! We are, indeed, living according to “our beliefs” and not God’s Word which is why, among other things: airplanes are flying into buildings, large portions of the Gulf Coast have been demolished, we have evil/corrupt rulers, we’re getting a bloody nose in Iraq, and tens of millions of unborn babies have been murdered by abortion since 1973.
Levin: To say it again, the beauty of our system is that it provides freedom of religion for everyone. You are free to have your religious beliefs and I am free to have mine.
Comment: The God-hating, anti-Christ, anti-Bible system we have is “beautiful” only to a child of Satan. To God, it stinks. He’s dealing with us. And the Lord does have a way of getting our attention. Psalm 9:17: “The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.”